Character is King for Brand Films
Michael Sternoff, Principal Creative Director at Amazon’s Project Kuiper does a deep dive into the art of authentic brand storytelling. He discusses the hero’s journey, the power of spotlighting real people over celebrities, and how brands can take a supporting role in stories that resonate.
TRANSCRIPT
Michael Sternoff: You just have to really care for people and love people. I love coming in, really finding out what they're passionate about and what they're excited about, talking to people who really really care. Everybody has a story to tell and no story is really small enough. Where the stories fall apart is where you jam the brands in there. So you let the story kind of come through. And then you let the brand be the hero. And that’s when the story works the best.
Jesse Roesler: Greetings and welcome to Content That Moves, the podcast from Credo Nonfiction and BrandStorytelling that pulls back the curtain to reveal how the very best in brand films and episodic content is being funded, created, distributed and measured.
I'm your host Jesse Roesler, the founder of Credo Nonfiction, where we partner with brands to find and tell stories that reveal brand purpose and deepen brand meaning through short and feature length documentaries or episodic series. Visit CredoNonFiction.com to learn how we can help you create real, moving stories for your brand.
This podcast is co-produced by BrandStorytelling, bringing you the latest news, trends, and insights in branded content with top-of-industry events and in-depth industry coverage online. BrandStorytelling encourages a higher level of collaboration amongst advertisers, agencies, media partners, and creators in pursuit of a richer media environment. For more of the latest in the world of branded content or to explore event offerings, visit BrandStorytelling.tv today.
Today we’re going to dive into the space race with Michael Sternoff, Global Creative Director for Amazon's Project Kuiper.
Kuiper is launching low Earth orbit satellites into space to help bring high speed internet connectivity to places where it might otherwise be hard to access. Mike and I talk about the importance of casting and location in making really impactful stories about this kind of hard-to-visualize topic. We get into the nitty gritty of who makes a good character for these kinds of brand films, and what makes them work well. This is the kind of discussion with takeaways for almost any kind of brand story so you may want to have the notebook and pencil close by.
Well, Michael, welcome to the show. It's always a treat to have one of our brand partners on, especially someone that we've seen fight the good fight to get compelling stories, human-centric stories made inside of large companies. We love to see that. So, welcome.
Today, I want to talk about quite a few things, but I think an overarching theme is the value of including real, everyday people and tapping into what they are passionate about versus bringing in celebrities, influencers, or executive communications. I think those all have a place, but I love how, in a lot of your work—not just with Amazon but also in previous work in video game development and your own documentaries—you have found really interesting characters that we, as an audience, can identify with because they are everyday people passionate about something. I think we can all get behind that.
So I'd love it if maybe we could just start with as an example the project that we were able to work on together that you're leading at Amazon. Maybe you could give us an overview of what Project Kuiper is and what your strategy has been to utilize storytelling in setting up the need for the service.
Michael Sternoff: Yes, so Project Kuiper is satellite internet from Amazon. Last year, we sent up two prototype flight satellites, and then we will go into production. It is about internet connectivity. A lot of our stories are focused on our customers, their pain points, and it's partially researched so that we can better understand them and tell their stories.
When it comes to corporate storytelling, we think a lot about the “tell,” not the “sell.” So with a lot of branded stuff, they want to just pack in all the messaging. We always look at it and say, “Maybe that is better suited for a slick sheet, like a PDF, or as copy on the website.” It is about asking, “What is best for video?” and coaching our internal teams to say, “I know you are asking for this, but what do you actually want?”
And so we, we kind of always start with that.
And then with the customer, it is better to start with someone's personal story—something they actually care about talking about. Because If they care, the audience will care.. And if you just jam too much messaging or the key person, they might, the customer might not want or need to hear from that person. They need to hear from the person that's actually impacted. So it's always just kind of a balance either way.
Jesse Roesler: That touches on two tenets I have always believed in. Also, coming from a journalism background and especially in a corporate or brand environment I think the best thing that cinematic storytelling, video storytelling can do is humanize a brand in a way that a product sheet can't. Let video do that. I love what Simon Sinek says, “Start with the why.” Which is exactly what you are doing with Kuiper. It is about answering, “Why do we even need this?”
Let's show these people who are passionate about something, who, through the help of your brand in this instance, can continue with their passion or maybe grow their passion you give the audience a reason to care. So maybe you could put that into context with some of the stories that you've found or have been telling through Kuiper?
Michael Sternoff: I shot news for a long time. You'd drive to a story out in Chicago and the assignment desk would have one idea of what you're going to do, and then when you show up, it could be just a completely different story. And so we'd always say: “shoot the story you have, not the story you want.” And with finding these stories and coming to our customers, we generally know where we're going to go, but when we show up it's a little bit of discovery as you're rolling that figures out. It either confirms your point of view or it challenges it and shifts it. So, we might have a point of view that our customers have one experience. Then when you start talking to them, they say it's completely different.
Then the other thing is you get somebody to talk about what they love to work on, like they will talk your ear off. A big influence for me is Studs Terkel's interviews like “Chicago” and “World War Z,” the book that was really a throwback to Studs, “Division Street America” and “Working.” But you get people to sit down, you ask them about their craft and the details of their craft and they'll talk all day long. And so that's where I found the most fruitful stories always are. You just want to find out what they are really, really passionate about. And it could be their job, it could be their family, but that always doesn't align. What we might say is: “Hey, we're financing or funding this story to get this brand message out or, you know whatever our goals are,” messaging goals, and you have to just look for the paths where the story is going to end up that will overlap with our goals.
Like that kind of nice diagram. And if you try to force it in, it just never works and people turn it off.
Jesse Roesler: Two things about that. I think it's smart to tap into their passion because we work a lot with real people that have never been in front of a camera before.. The mechanics of filmmaking can, if you've never done it before, it can be a little intimidating. So I think not only are you going to get better content, but I think people start to feel more comfortable when they start talking about something they love and something they're passionate about. And that makes them a far more engaging onscreen subject. And it gets you into potential scene opportunities that might overlap with what your goals are.
So for example, I don’t know if you want to talk about Montana and what the passion conversation was there and how what you're doing can help enable them stay on the ranch, for example.
Michael Sternoff: I went to school in Montana. I went to journalism school out there. And so for me, when the possibility of shooting out there came up, I knew it was a ‘yes.’ I knew that there are so many places, and folks in Montana are very, very protective and passionate about the land. I've known these people because I went to school with these people. I've had beers at bars with these people. And then when you go out to the family ranches, which is one of the funner things to do, asking they how they feel like they want to maintain the land, why they're here, and why it's important to them. And for a lot of folks in Montana, conservation is really important. So with the conservation ranch, it's kind of the same deal.
They care so much about the space, and then that bleeds through on camera and the storytelling. And when those people feel that way and that's put onto camera, then it could really have that same impact with the audience. If the people on camera don't care, the audience won't care.
It's not just the people in front of the camera caring, if you have a crew that will just talk your ear off about either lenses or old films. Or just anything like that. The excitement of a crew doing that craft process also bleeds to the excitement of the subject. And it just goes really smoothly.
Your subject has to trust you. And if the crew there is really excited to be there and being like, I've been looking for an opportunity to shoot a story like this. It just takes a good story and makes it so smooth and a really good experience.
Jesse Roesler: I love that so much. There are things too from your subject, like not only knowing where their passion conversation is, and how what you're providing will help them continue to do what they love. Ranching is tougher for example, we can't make the things that we need financially anymore, so we need to work from home, and we need good internet to do that. And so when you're casting these people in that protagonist role, and the brand takes more of the Obiwan character, supporting character role, then put your customer or your potential customer in that hero's role and let the brand be what helps them either continue their journey or expand their journey.
So often I've seen things where the brands think they should be front and center and the hero. And then it's like the guy at the party who only talks about himself. You tune it out, right? It becomes noise. But when you can tell an authentic story of somebody that's been touched in some way from the brand and that messaging is secondary to what their passion conversation is, I think it becomes so much more powerful and will find a greater audience.
Michael Sternoff: A really good brand documentary is like any superhero hero origin story.
Act one and act two, they are front and center. And then it's whatever, it's the Ironman suit, it's the gamma radiation and act three that comes out. And that's when your hero, who was always capable of the stuff, is just empowered to do even more. If you jam that into act one, it just never feels right.
It's got to feel like you care about your subject first. And then that the brand is something that can help enable them. And the biggest thing is don't tell people that your brand is great.
Show how it can impact. Absolutely. And it's not always for each project. It's tricky to show. What I always really, really loved when I was working in gaming is the games often, especially online games, would link to our customers together. So customers that would never talk to each other, or never met before would actually be connected by Destiny or Halo.
I interviewed a handful of people and I would ask, “How long have you known each other?” And the answer would be: “Well, I've known him for or her for two years, but this is the first time we've met in person.” And for me, they seem like old friends, but really what it is, it's Halo or Destiny or eventually Project Kuiper linking these people together.
And so I've always thought it was very important to start the story with the people, get to know them, and then later we mention they met playing Halo together. Those are the best brand stories, is that you really show it.
Jesse Roesler: Absolutely. And it's why I loved studying – going way back – myths and story structure. You're familiar with Joseph Campbell, and “The Power of Myth.” I love looking at that. And if you look, there's this commonality the world over, on how stories have been constructed, and there's a reason for that. And I think when we keep that top of mind when we're putting brand stories together, like another screenwriting I book says, you always want your protagonist to save the cat early.
Michael Sternoff: Oh yeah. That book, “Save the Cat” is good.
Jesse Roesler: How do you present a character that's going to be endearing to your audience? And it's not starting with the brand, it's starting with them and their passion and something you can get behind. Because in Montana, you have the revelation, “Wow, his grandfather started this and he's just trying to continue his family legacy. And I've got a family that I would love to continue things that my family did.” And all of a sudden you're connecting, you're bonding in an emotional way. And then you're invested him staying on that ranch. And then all of a sudden, “Oh! The thing that is going to help make that possible is this service.” And, “Wow. That's great. They're helping him fulfill something that you can tell is deep seated and is very important.”
Michael Sternoff: With story I always think on the fact that even Shakespeare was doing remakes with Caesar and all this stuff. And the question is how can we bring these new stories and new shooting styles to these classic paths? While not making it feel too worn out of a road. And a lot of times it's the people that change it. So there’s the structure and then when you put in the people, it's an entirely different story.
Jesse Roesler: And there can be different points along the way that feel unexpected. You should never feel like you're being taken down that same path, but it'll hit certain notes that make it satisfying at certain climaxes. You talk about the three-act structure. I think that's something that's there, but you shouldn't always be able to see it, or tell that it's there. But in the end, you're going to think: “Oh wow, that was satisfying.” Why? Because this person came up against the challenge, something helped them through it, and then they emerged at a new state. And that's the basic formula boiled down.
But I love when you can think about that too. And to your point, think about how can the format fit the character? So when you're thinking about the landscape of Montana, or wherever you're going to be, the location can be a character such that it feels totally different from anything else, even if it has that same story beat inherent in its structure.
Michael Sternoff: It's really tricky with brand storytelling because, what is “brand?” I think Jobs said it. It's love, it's feeling, it's emotion. Right? And that's often what is left out of some of the video storytelling. You have to set up why people emotionally care. And it's something that I'm kind of challenging myself because my favorite feature stories especially like the third act.
So I think about the last scenes of “Inglorious Bastards,” “Once Upon A Time In Hollywood,” but also about superheroes in a game where Captain America has a shattered shield. He thinks it's over. Then in his head he hears Sam and everybody coming in “Hunt,” or you hear him come in at the end of “New Hope.” It's that excitement, that love. That's the magic sauce that we really look to inject into our stories.
And it's one thing that's tricky because when you get overloaded with all the messaging, and that gets forgotten, then nobody wants to watch it. But if you see the rancher that cares, who is emotional about preserving this land and preserving a family legacy, it comes through on camera. And it's that love for the land, love for his family that is translated. And that's the trickiest thing about brand storytelling. But it's also the goal I'm always going towards.
Jesse Roesler: Agreed. And there's so many different shades of that in terms of the balance of the story, of someone surrounding your brand, and then what are the one or two things? When someone has a key message list of seven or eight bullets, I think, OK, if someone had to walk away and they could take two or maybe three things, what are those? So it's usually an exercise in reduction. Let's tie the one or two things that are really important with this feeling that they're going to have about somebody else's story. And that's where I think the magic can really happen and what they call brand affinity or brand lift can really happen. Which is what the human stories do best. And look, there's a place for the features video and the product video, and that can all live side-by-side. But I think you and I as storytellers love the stuff that really makes us feel something on behalf of a brand.
Michael Sternoff: Especially when you're working with internal teams, whether it's public policy or somebody really high up, they need all that stuff. And so what you can't do is say, “Hey, I'm going to shoot a 10-minute piece, a 15-minute piece, and it's going to be this. And because the story wins out, you're not going to get your other asks.” That will fall flat every time. Then they’re going to say no. But if you say, “this is the vision for this piece, here's all the supporting elements, whether it's websites, one-sheets, all that other stuff.” And they can see the holistic content strategy. That's where you always have to earn trust with all your partners across teams. And once you start earning that trust, then they can see how this piece really makes sense and you're only hitting those four things, or really just maybe two things. But they get all the other stuff in other areas.
Jesse Roesler: And I think a big part of that can be, when you think about content, where the brand feels sort of shoehorned in there. It gets to what we're talking about too if you set your story in a world where your brand is just there, it's part of the landscape, part of the fabric. When it's in the DNA and it just lives there and it's part of a story, you can tell a story much more easily without having to bring the product in for the product shot.
It's just part of it. And I'm thinking of things like the previous guest we had on Amanda, Amanda Brinkman, who was part of Deluxe and they help small businesses. She got the first series on Hulu that was funded by a brand and it was a makeover show, but for small businesses.
People love makeover shows and you get this emotional journey of finding a small business you want to get behind. Then you see the makeover, and then at some point someone from Deluxe helps them with setting up their website or a piece of marketing. It's part of a larger story, but you know if you tell the stories of these people that brand is going to show up organically. I don't have to put it in there. It's automatically going to be there. So I think there's an opportunity for brands to think about where should I set my story and what type of protagonist can I have? Whereas for ours, it's organically already there. I don't have to do anything.
Michael Sternoff: I think it's in the Wayne's World sequel, or maybe the first one where they're talking about bad product placement and they're drinking a Pepsi. And it's interesting being here and hearing some of the other content. I’ve learned about a lot of branded content that I didn’t know was branded content. It just blows my mind because it was so good. And it was on Netflix or whatever and that's when you're really cooking with gas. I never knew that it was branded content because It was just an amazing story that happened to be set in a certain place or feature kind of whatever.
Jesse Roesler: Yeah. It doesn't call attention to itself. It seems like everyone that's figured that out, has figured out where to set the story. And I think that's why research and casting are so critical. And it's all part of a much larger equation. I know you've got other things on the horizon both with Kuiper and is there anything else that you're looking forward to coming up doing at Amazon that you can talk about?
Michael Sternoff: Nothing that I could talk about right now. But what I really do love about being at a place like Amazon is that there's just like so much rich opportunity. I started at a WSI, worked at Amazon Photos, now I'm over here, and it’s just a lot of really, really smart people and broad opportunities. So it's everything from what an overall brand expression looks like, what design looks like, and also just how our stuff impacts our customers. So it's nonfiction storytelling, maybe it's fiction storytelling. At Photos particularly, we really focused on doing the “Memories Deliver” campaign, but it was a series of non-fiction stories about how essentially memories can impact a person's life and how they could just look at an old photo and it will take them back to a certain day.
And so that emotional storytelling, even though my love is in documentaries, you get the opportunity to really show it in a lot of different areas and different mediums. And so I'd say what I am working on is that feeling of closing the digital divide for this project, as I did for “Halo.” It was connecting people, “Destiny” was connecting people.
One of my favorite stories… It was a game I worked on, “Destiny,” which is a big online game. You do raids, and so you're on headsets. It was a guy who really didn't know his brother that well. Different ages. And his brother kind of still lived at home, but when they started raiding together, he really got to know his brother. Because playing this game and just kind of chatting is similar to a long car trip where you're just staring forward doing something, but really getting deep into it.
He got to know his brother, and he says that their relationship has changed. And it's because this product and the best parts of Destiny really came out. And having that feeling that this is what I care about. That's the best feeling. And then for the nonfiction stuff, it's just a passion for finding people that love to talk about their jobs, their work and that might not be able to do something yet. They know where their goal is and if they can just get a little bit more of something, maybe it's connectivity, maybe it's…. Having these people and seeing their lives improve. That's by far the best feeling.
Jesse Roesler: I love that idea that we're using a craft to work towards a feeling. There's a story that has a beginning, middle, and end. There's messaging along the way, but if we can make you feel something that you then associate with a brand, and you get right to what's most meaningful about it.
Michael Sternoff: When you think about this industry, what is your most exciting, best day of the year?
Jesse Roesler: We don't talk enough about how you can really make everyone's work more meaningful by telling these kinds of stories. I get really excited about that and I'm excited about stories and characters more than anything, and what world they're in. I love food, I love the outdoors. These are the things that I love, but the world doesn't always matter. Which is why I love working with a ton of brand, and bringing that feeling to different audiences and different subcultures. I love entering a world that I haven't really seen before or known much about before.
Michael Sternoff: It's by far the best part. Because you bring somebody in and when I was shooting video for local news in Chicago, every day you're learning more and more about people that you would never interact with on a daily basis.
Jesse Roesler: Yeah.
Michael Sternoff: And it is, I think, the one thing that I've carried through, is you just have to really care for people and love people. I love coming in really finding out what they're passionate about and what they're excited about. And there's so many people that have such unique stories.
It was a couple weeks ago, my old college professor from Montana was inducted to the Silver Circle. And I learned he used to have a show called “Back Roads Montana.” And in a speech, he reminded me that in college we would shoot stories like this, or small businesses, and it's a thread I didn't realize that I pulled throughout. Every back road in Montana, these people have these stories. And he spent years just going everywhere, and finding out really what was passionate, and what made Montana and the people in Montana. So partially that's why I was so excited to go back. But it's something I didn't really know why I like this so much until it was articulated, but it's talking to people who really, really care and that everybody has a story to tell. And no story is really small enough. Where the story falls apart is if you jam that brand in there. So you let the story kind of come through and then you let the brand be the hero and that's when it works the best.
Jesse Roeseler: I love that. And you reminded me not only by mentioning Studs Turkel, but what you just said about your professor. I fell in love with Charles Kuralt and his “On the Road” series. Are you familiar with that?You would love it because he did the back roads all over America in the ‘80s and ‘90s. It was really big, and it would just be these little slices of life. And I think what I'm drawn to is people that couldn't care less what the dominant culture is doing. They're off doing their own thing and you can tell they're internally motivated by whatever path they're on, and they've never listened to anything or anybody else. And the world is in danger of everybody becoming more the same.
So when we can find characters that are interesting like that, and they're in a world that happens to inhabit where a brand is living. There are so many stories that are so interesting like that that are yet to be told. And that's what gets me excited. I love where this has gone. This is a real storytellers storyteller episode, I think. On that note, is there anything that you've seen recently, whether that's in the branded space or just in the nonfiction story space that's got you inspired, whether that's by the craft or what it is?
Michael Sternoff: The one thing I always go back to: it's really two documentaries that came out in the early 2000s: “Capturing the Friedmans,” and “Dear Zachary.” And they're very tough documentaries to watch. I mean, I remember shutting the laptop halfway through “Dear Zachary.” I was watching on a laptop because it's so emotionally jarring and it's those stories that are a very intentional burn. They really know their structure and they kind of walk you through it. It's the, “I want to change.” I like that. That makes you have a new way of looking at something, or emotionally just kind of punches you in the gut. Those are the stories that always resonate with me.
Jesse Roesler: Awesome. Cool. Well I think there's a lot here that folks can pull inspiration from and maybe reimagine the types of stories they're telling or how they're telling it.
Thanks for being here and geeking out on all things story with me.
Michael Sternoff: Yeah. No, I appreciate it. Appreciate everybody for listening. It's fun to talk about.
Jesse Roesler: To view the video stories from Project Kuiper visit https://www.youtube.com/@ProjectKuiper or to view the latest story that Credo NonFiction has done with Amazon’s Project Kuiper visit Credo NonFiction.com
As always, I hope you've been enjoying the podcast and I'd love to hear from you. If you have ideas for guests or topics for future episodes, drop me a note at jesse@credononfiction.com.
